1 Timothy 2
Ok, so I've got a lot of this chapter to cover today since I wasn't so great at posting this week and will be away for the weekend so this will likely be my last post on this chapter.
First, I am becoming increasingly concerned for the salvation of my students and the students in Lethbridge. I don't want death to claim one more who is still a citizen/captive of the kingdom of darkness. I'm not sure what to do about it at this time (and believe that we are moving in some great directions with our Ignite Camps) but I get great comfort and confidence from the fact that God's desire (will?) is that everyone would be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. I believe that as I continue before God in prayer that he will reveal to me what I need to do in the areas of evangelism.
Ok, let's get to the main event... Paul stirs up some controversy here. Let me start with the questions. When Paul says he wants men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer is that just men or does he mean humans (in the sense of "mankind")? Does the desire for women to dress modestly only apply to women? Or does the principle extend to men as well? (I've seen some guys wear clothing that would be immodest). Does Paul's instruction about the role of women apply to all women in all cultures for all time? Or were there special circumstances in Ephesus that caused Paul to issue such a command? If we are going to teach that women should not teach for all time and all cultures, doesn't that mean that we should teach that women should be saved through childbearing? What does this mean for my wife?
After some study, hearing different positions at BBC and reading some books (Community 101 being an influential one for me) I believe that there were special circumstances that caused Paul to issue this order to the church in Ephesus. Chapter 1 makes it clear that heresies were being taught and the general sense of the letter is that there was a lot of chaos and confusion in the church (which is the reason Timothy was sent as a relatively permanent apostolic representative - a rare occurrence judging from the rest of Scripture).
My problem with my position is that the preceding verses are applicable universally. However, my problem with the other position is that nowhere does it mention that the gifts of leadership, pastor/teacher, shepherd, etc. were only given to men. Besides that, Scripture makes it clear that when it comes to how God sees us after salvation, he doesn't see male or female, slave or free, Jew or Gentile. The titles and roles that go along with them seem to be human inventions.
Ok, let's tackle the last verse. The word "saved" is used in three ways through Scripture:
1) deliverance from disease or demon possession
Not likely the meaning here unless one considers the child in her a disease or demon!
2) the rescue of physical life from impending peril or instant death
Basically this means that God will protect (Christian?) women so they won't die while giving birth to children. The test of history shows that this is not likely the meaning. Plenty of Christian women have died in childbirth.
3) spiritual salvation
We know that salvation is by grace alone. A woman is not made spiritually alive by giving birth. This would also mean that all barren women would miss out on salvation somehow. The NIV study Bible says that it could mean that women are saved spiritually through the physical birth of Jesus. But aren't we saved through his death and resurrection? Wouldn't men be included in that salvation? Besides, the tense is future: they will be saved. Wouldn't the more proper reading be: "Women have been saved through childbearing..." Even that sounds awkward! This view would solve the evangelism problem I mentioned earlier - "hey girls! Want to go to heaven? Have babies!!"
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2 comments:
Hey Jer...way to go man, way to "wade out into the sea" first. Maybe my lack of blogging has been an unwillingness to dialogue on this issue, or create dialogue on it. As you know, some of my questions come from a camp fairly opposite of "Community 101". So, let the conversation begin!!!!
Certainly it seems to me that Paul's commands in verse 8 and 9 are specific to the church in Ephesus, with application to the rest of us as seen in other passages of the New Testament (speaking about community in Colossians 3:13) and throughout scripture being reminded that we were created for the Glory of God (which implies not our glory) (Isaiah 43:7). So there seems to be both specific and general application here. I wonder if it might be the same for the more difficult verses to come...both specific and general or universal. Obvioulsy there was a specific issue in Ephesus, but I am caught (and trust me, there are times when I wish I wasn't caught on this) on his reason for the roles of men and woman in worship with reference to creation and the fall in verses 13 and 14. By the way, as you know I highly respect your mind when it comes to understanding scripture, so just a challenge...It is very clear that not only nowhere else does it say that the gifts of pastor, (although Timothy and Titus guidelines for eldership might cause us to pause on this)and teacher etc. were only for men (1 Peter 5 may be another possible point of discussion, my bad), but neither does it say that here. It is not speaking about the gifting, but the context within which it is used...I think. Finally, even though Galatians state that God does not see any value difference between slave or free, Jew or Gentile, male or female, it does not mean that they are not different nor that they don't function differently. Somehow there is still a difference between male and female and 1 Peter gives some guidelines on how slaves should respond to masters and vice versa. Here is part of my wrestling match. Our sexuality defines us in so many ways...in every interaction it is between male and male, female and female or male and female. If our sexuality is part of what defines us, how does it define us? Are roles part of that? If not, what is? I'm wrestling with it man...
Ok, so let me make sure of what you're saying: a woman could receive the gift of pastor teacher or of leadership but she is limited in the way that she can use that in the church. Is that what you're saying?
If so, what are the limitations: complete silence in the church service? only teaching children and other women?
What passages would you appeal to in order to lay out a list of limitations?
I'm not coming from a defined position - I'm sincerely asking the questions.
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